Plein Air Podcast

Plein Air Podcast 241: Kathryn Stats on Color Mixing and More

In this episode of the Plein Air Podcast, Eric Rhoads interviews an incredible master artist, Kathryn Stats.

Kathryn grew up in the West and wandered the Utah countryside on her horse until her early 20s. She studied with artists in the Salt Lake City area on a continuous basis for approximately 20 years. While she has traveled to and painted the coastal areas of California and Oregon as well as locations in Alaska, Russia, Spain, Italy, France, and Portugal, Kathryn always returns to the landscapes of the West, where her heart resides.
On March 11, Kathryn is leading a critique session during Plein Air Live (sign up now or catch the replay if you miss it).

Bonus! In this week’s Art Marketing Minute, Eric Rhoads, author of Make More Money Selling Your Art, discusses how to balance art making and business, and how to introduce a new style or genre of art.

Listen to the Plein Air Podcast with Eric Rhoads and Kathryn Stats here:

Learn more from Kathryn with her PaintTube.tv video workshops, Overview Mountain Scenery; Lazy Summer Day; and Seaside Reflections of Southern California.

Related Links:
– Kathryn Stats online: https://www.kathrynstats.com/
– Plein Air Magazine: https://pleinairmagazine.com/
– Plein Air Live: https://pleinairlive.com/
– Plein Air Convention & Expo: https://pleinairconvention.com/
– Eric Rhoads on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ericrhoads/
– Plein Air Today newsletter: https://www.outdoorpainter.com/plein-air-today-newsletter/
– Submit Art Marketing Questions: artmarketing.com/questions

The Plein Air Podcast has been named the #1 Painting Podcast by FeedSpot for two years in a row.

FULL TRANSCRIPT of this Plein Air Podcast
DISCLAIMER: The following is the output of a transcription from an audio recording of the Plein Air Podcast. Although the transcription is mostly correct, in some cases it is slightly inaccurate due to the recording and/or software transcription.

Eric Rhoads:
This is episode number 241 with the incredible master artist Kathryn Stats.

Announcer:
This is the Plein Air Podcast with Eric Rhoads, publisher and founder of Plein Air Magazine. In the Plein Air Podcast, we cover the world of outdoor painting called plein air. The French coined the term which means open air or outdoors. The French pronounce it plenn air. Others say plein air. No matter how you say it. There is a huge movement of artists around the world who are going outdoors to paint and this show is about that movement. Now, here’s your host, author, publisher, and painter, Eric Rhoads.

Eric Rhoads 0:31
Thank you Jim Kipping. And welcome to the plein air podcast. Man. It is so nice to be here today. And it is spring here in Austin, Texas. And spring what that means is the wildflowers are going to be coming out. I saw my first Indian paintbrush just yesterday. And I saw a couple of crape myrtles with a beautiful purple blossoms. And so it’s gonna be blossom time. Soon we will have fields literally fields of bluebonnets. Now every year is different some years are hard to find some years, you can find them everywhere. So we’ll find out soon. But I’ll be out painting those this past weekend, I went to place about two three hours from Austin into the middle of you know, Texas country hill country. And I painted there and it was wonderful to set up next to his stream and painted a lot of different scenery there. So it was a lot of fun for me and finally able to get out and not even have to wear your coat. As a matter of fact, I I had to start shedding layers because it was too too warm. And that’s a nice thing. It’s nice to have the weather back and I hope that happens for you wherever you are. One thing that I found frustrating though, is that having not painted for a while I you know the first two or three paintings first two paintings really were bad. You know, and and then you just kind of get your rhythm back and then everything is okay. But it’s a reminder to practice practice all the time. I think this daily painting ideas are really good idea. Hey, coming up after the interview, in the art marketing minute, I’m going to be talking about the balancing act of your art making and then running the business as well if you’re selling art, and also how to introduce yourself as a new style or new genre of painting. So we’ll talk about those things coming up. I may have mentioned before that we are now voted number one in the Feedspot list of painting podcast. And that’s our second year in a row. Thank you for making that happen. We are humbled. I know that’s hard to believe. But we really truly are. This week, we’ve been planning our big birthday party. Yep, we have a 10 year birthday of the plein air convention. It’s just hard to believe I was thinking about all the people that I met at the first plein air convention 12 years ago. And I say 12 years. Why do we have 12 years ago to celebrate our 10 year? Well, there was a two year gap with COVID. Anyway, we’re doing some big things to celebrate our 10th some party things, it’s going to be a lot of fun. It’s the year to come. And we also are going to have television and film star Jane Seymour is visiting Jane is going to be there painting with us the entire week. As you know she’s a painter, and it’s going to be nice to have her there. We’re gonna have her on stage doing a little something. And you know, she’s just there to help us celebrate. So that’s pretty cool. And hopefully you’ll get a chance to meet her and get to know her. Also, we have some incredible painters lined up and you can look at plein air convention.com For that CW Mundy is going to be coming. We have some music planned. We have five stages we have daily painting together, we’re going to be painting some incredible places like Garden of the Gods and and Rocky Mountain National Park. We have a pre convention workshop with Lori Putnam. And we also have a beginner’s day for baby plein air painters, we actually have in the beginners day. We have people who will work with you all week when we go out painting so you have somebody who is kind of a companion for you to kind of stay with the group and work with them some great instructors so that’s cool. We also have what we call field painters and those people work with everybody you know, you need help you just raise your hand and we’re there to help you. Now today, my guest is Kathryn Stats and she is a a rock star painter, she grew up out west and she wandered into the Utah countryside on her horse. Until she was in her early 20s. She studied with artists in the Salt Lake area. And by the way, there were a lot of artists, great artists around the Salt Lake area. She studied with those artists for continuous 20 years. Her work is very well known, not really echoing the styles of anybody. She’s got her own unique style. We’re going to talk about that today. And she is of course traveled and painted to coastal areas of California, Oregon, as well as Alaska, Russia, Spain, Italy, France, Portugal, and she is always returning to the landscapes of the West, which is where her heart resides. So, Kathyrn, welcome to the plein air podcast.

Kathryn Stats 5:45
Thank you for having me. It’s so nice to see you. After all these years.

Eric Rhoads 5:50
It’s been too long. I think the last time I saw you was in person was at the plein air convention.

Kathryn Stats 5:55
I was young.

Eric Rhoads 5:56
Oh, stop. Oh, stop. Okay, if you’re breathing it, then that’s all that matters.

Kathryn Stats 6:05
Right? Yeah. So,

Eric Rhoads 6:07
Kathryn, how did this painting journey begin for you?

Kathryn Stats 6:12
Oh, when I was younger, in high school, and so, so much so forth. I love color. Of course, in a sewing class, we’d be talking about the opposite colors on the color of Lille. And you know, and so I was curious and interested enough to sell myself enough of that opposite color business. I like the analogous analogous ones that I was always interested in that my sister was supposed to be an artist, she was very, very, very good. And I didn’t consider myself anything like that. So I was married, probably so I wouldn’t have to go to college. Oh, we don’t want to give that away. And I never had given myself permission to have art supplies. And whenever anyone else had them, I just use them in that. Like, I was just smitten. And so one day, I got myself a cheap set of pastel colors. And I copied pictures, and Walter Foster’s how to paint books. And those are pretty good books. I copy the stuff out of them. And then we moved to Brazil in 72. Brazil, yeah. After that my husband was with Dun and Bradstreet. And so here I am with two little kids and nothing to do. And I bought my first set of paints, the little wood box was a starter set. And I started copying postcards from there. And luckily, in the end, we came back after a year, I was very unhappy about that to begin with. But it’s when I started painting for serious and I don’t think we have it to show but I have a picture of my very first plein air painting out in the back of our apartment, it was a field with horses and all you know, there was a barn, and each end was identical trees, and a little fence line going in there, you know, on mountains behind.

Eric Rhoads 8:22
How does that painting hold up today? No, well, I

Kathryn Stats 8:26
I have that one. And I have one of them I did a couple of years ago. And my good friend Marcy Bailey pointed out the similarities in the beginning one and then later one. And first, I didn’t really want to hear that. But it’s true. There was a bar. But it was much better. So I love having those two images to show. And I

Eric Rhoads 8:49
think it’s really important to keep keep keep our past work so we can look backwards.

Kathryn Stats 8:56
Yes, and I don’t keep a lot of I don’t keep the best stuff here. I’m too greedy. But yes, I do have some that I keep, but I’m so happy that you at least have the images. So anyway, I started with his old paint sets. And anyway, I took my little plein air painting to a night course for you know, you know, paint at the high school at night, some teacher and I showed it to her. She said, Well, if you put black on the dark sides of those mountains and white on the light side, that will be much better. And I said, Well, what about those fence posts? Don’t they need to disappear? No, it’s not it’s not really important. And I thought and I will not swear this time. It’s about I thought blank. I know more than she does. And so she doesn’t know anything. So then I found my great uncle by marriage is lecan Stewart. He’s a very famous old painter in Edgar Payne’s time, and what’s his name? Dixit, Maynard Dixon, they were friends. And so I asked him with whom I should study He recommended a really fun teacher. And that’s where I learned color. And who was the teacher, the parents, and his and I struggled with him, I met my best friend for life there. And we go out and take pictures of slides and compete more or less healthy competition. And I was very angry with Frank because he wouldn’t let me use brown or black or gray or anything. And I thought, well, what’s a girl to do? So the second painting I chose, so it started with three colors, Elizabeth sailo, blue and yellow ochre. And, man, it’s like you’ve mixed 90% and you paint 10%. And then the next year, you shift that triad, a click, you know, to the left, so you’ve got orange, green, and violet. They were the wrong. orange, green and violet, you know. But anyway, after that, I was not afraid to mix anything, bless his heart. And I even shows a really great painting did Aspen’s, you know, on a hillside or something, and I thought, he can’t, he can’t, he can’t let me paint that without using grin, or I Gosh, he did, and brown. Now, I figure I try to stay away from brown because everything wants to be brown. And so it was really valuable learning.

Eric Rhoads 11:19
All right, I want to stop there and focus on that for just a second because these are important lessons. Talk to us about this idea of painting with three, three colors a limited palette. Are you doing that still? Or is it something that you would recommend for somebody as you’ve got to learn this before you do anything else?

Kathryn Stats 11:42
It’s really important. If you’re interested in you love mixing color. It’s very important. I start with a three basic red yellow blues. And that can be I choose what they are orange, green, and violet. So those are open colors to me. You know, and Cinderella golden books so wicked stepmother had a purple dress and turquoise plumes coming out. I mean, what what a wonderful thing they balance so it’s cold anyway? No, I think it’s important to do it. And they can at least be your base colors. I have. I have I love to get a different color and run home and mix it with white and mix it with something else and see how it works. But I’m I think more in groups of threes rather than just complementary colors. There’s nothing wrong with either one. Now my sister was having a terrible time doing color and depth. And she took painting classes from a guy who was just a great painter. And he was more of the pre impressionist. But he was saying to her use brown to warm it and black to cool it and you know it works too. So I’m not saying there’s only one way to skin that cat but I just I just think in terms of violets being your brown, if you’ve got a violent it’s to read. If it’s okay, if you’ve got a violet that looks like Kool Aid, really wouldn’t read it really, you know, you can gray that down with a whisper, just a whisper of lemon yellow, and it takes it right down to gray. So I don’t want to go into this too much. You know, that’s a life. No,

Eric Rhoads 13:21
no, no, but I think these are important things. And let’s talk about graying things down. When I was out painting this past weekend. You know, the first instinct is to is, I don’t know was to use that garish color, even though it was a pretty color. But you know, I lay it down and it doesn’t work. But when I grade it down. So do you want to give people a couple of thoughts about the green things now?

Kathryn Stats 13:47
Well, you’re you’re bright, what gorgeous colors are mean more if there’s a gray near them if you’re going from, you know, if you don’t just stick with that color and get hotter and hotter. So people die of thirst just looking at it. So you have to remember your grays. And there are I got a sort of what I’m going to tell you about from a TED Gerstner book years ago, and they were mother grays. And so there’s one with Gosh, you can mix up. Well ultramarine blue, and burnt sienna, make a wonderful gray. They’ll make a dead center gray. Those two Elizabeth crimson and Failla green, you know, you’ve mixed up all these different colors and it’s by the way, it’s not exactly opposite on the color wheel because which grid which red, which yellow or which you know, and so I mixed up a bunch of them and wrote one what was the combination was my favorite one to keep on my pile and he was using prison violet. I can’t find that anymore. I can’t remember what made it. So I use a quinacridone violet and it and cobalt blue and then mix enough white to keep it amid Tony, you basically want it the same value as what you’re agreeing that it’s it’s I keep it on my palette all the time. And there’s a warmer one where you’ve got some maybe orange and some yellow ones, you know a bunch of Bert cn or something. And then you great with a whisper of a of a blue doesn’t matter if you use a warm blue, you get a little different thing or a cool blue. And that so that’s red rock kind of stuff, but I don’t use it in that I use violet. So and then there are other ones where you’re mixing secondary colors, more earth tones, Indian red, if you’re not using that, right, you’ll hate it but Indian red, either ultramarine blue, or what’s that prussian blue? What you want to get out of it, and yellow ochre, so wonderful triad, if you’re using it a flight and see what you’ve got. And those are great for distant Gray’s say in Red Rock. They’ll get it you’ll get a pink, most beautiful violets and blues and pinks out of that. You just have to try it, you have to be interested enough to waste a whole lot of pain and try it. And so any three you pick up, I’d say with the orange, green and violet, it should be not I’d say Oh, green, that was just horrible. And then we had to violence cool in a warm but yeah, I get a probably a lighter green for that triad. But it’s experimenting. So I keep I like quinacridone colors. And I like to get new stuff. And just play with it and see what works.

Eric Rhoads 16:52
So do you don’t find that when you when you add new things all the time it’s throwing off your, your painting or your mixing or them

Kathryn Stats 17:00
to wake you up and make you think well that’s important. I have a painting I did with with Indian red, yellow ochre, and it was fresh and blue. And it was down in Abaco new ghost ranch. Yep. And, you know, I got the most gorgeous turquoises out of that when you get into the yellows and a little bit of red and it was it was you would never have known. So make yourself do it as good for your brain. But I do have a specific combination of three that I’ll work with. Usually in you know, like in gray days. Snow White, it’s amazing what snow does when it’s a clear day boys, those blues in those shadows are breathtaking. And in gray days. You know they’re there. They’re a little more muted. So

Eric Rhoads 17:55
are you saying that you you I wanted to get some clarity on this you always when you paint for the most part you always use a triad of three three versions but you you sounds like you’re using different versions of triads depending on what you’re painting.

Kathryn Stats 18:11
Yeah. Now for ocean and the west coast were so turquoise that I use and I learned this was pull foresters combination that I learned from a friend. And it was it was the Prussian blue. And the only time I ever ever, ever use not that you shouldn’t Raw Sienna, raw umber. Lord, raw Amber, and fresh and blue and yellow ochre. Okay, so you get that deep, Inky deep water feel from when you’re using the umber and the blue. Oh, and I keep that grape thing over there. The violet one, you know what the cobalt blue in the quinacridone violet, that pile over there on the right side, and always keep it out. So then as you’re getting lighter and more turquoise that you’re dropping the number and you’re picking up the ochre and pretty soon it’s gonna look like an Easter egg and you have to gray it down. Handle it. Even though you love in those colors. With the violet combination. It’ll gray it down even gray greens down to it’s just a good somehow something that you’d like some people use. Windsor, no. What’s it gray of Gray’s?

Eric Rhoads 19:37
Oh, well, there’s a series of Gray’s that that. I think Utrecht makes.

Kathryn Stats 19:44
It’s a it’s a Holbein hold by Graham grace, grace, every call and it’s a really nice one. So then you discover that if you use great grades and Ultramarine Blue and White on a sort of almost bright day But not you know, the top of the snow is it’s flat picks up the sky. That’s a perfect, beautiful snow color. Gray of Gray’s and ultramarine blue. Right? You just find this by being curious.

Eric Rhoads 20:12
Okay, terrific. So talk to me what let’s let’s finish the story about how you kind of transformed into becoming a full time artist. You you were learning this Your sister was painting. Tell me what was happening from that point forward?

Kathryn Stats 20:29
Well, my sister wasn’t painting she was in nursing school and I didn’t go to college because I didn’t want to or stupid because people are college educated at least they know how to study and deliver the goods. So

Eric Rhoads 20:46
still time Catherine, or a cornmeal time, he’ll still time to go to college.

Kathryn Stats 20:53
Oh, I know, that wouldn’t hurt either. So I had these paints. And it was it was taking classes from at from Frank and going with my friend. And painting and painting. And pretty soon, it start and on we had another mentor Ken Baxter, that we were playing our painting with, we were his students. And that’s what turned into Utah plein air painters, plein air painters of Utah. And so we were always going out and doing real crap, the first one I ever did, I was trying to paint 1000 miles away in a field. And when I got the slide back, all you can see was the field and, you know, you just learn and compete. And then it was pretty after a few years southwest art paintings that people were advertising. You think, gee, I can paint that? Well. Sometimes you think these people anybody can advertise is what I said to me. It’s when you’re, when you’re that means you’re, you know, your taste is changing and you’re seeing better, but all those years of being out and feeling crippled because I couldn’t put on the canvas what I was seeing or feeling

Eric Rhoads 22:11
so how did you get there? What for the person who’s who’s hearing that and relating to that? How do you get from from being hampered, you know, you see it, but you can’t figure out how to do it.

Kathryn Stats 22:25
I set up a goal. And one of my goals was to run from violet up to peach, and you know, and all the things in the middle and you set up goals for yourself. It takes curiosity, and it takes passion. And actually, for years I thought I’ve been I’ve been heard to say this too in a video I’ve gotten everybody that color is more important than value. And I’m lucky I did as well as I did because it’s really not true you know, you all know that by now. And so you

Eric Rhoads 23:01
I remember you telling me that you painted for a long long time before you really ever studied value.

Kathryn Stats 23:07
Yeah, I thought you know, I didn’t think I had a problem with it until reflected light on something started looking like I had a hole in the painting. You know, warm reflected light was painted to light. Okay, try painting shadow on a yellow wall. Try paying shadow playing, you know, painting shadow and dark and light and Red Rock country. And you’ll find out that it’s not violet, it’s not you know, I learned that you know, shadows were great and they were bluer and gray or whatever. And that if you add that to pine trees you’re gonna get something fairly scary instead of a warm a warmer violet a warm or something in there. And so you just started observing I was standing in the yard one day and there was a cast shadow on the lawn and I noticed that were that lightest part meant the shadow it was more intense in Chroma and then you find out that oh yeah you know these people are making those shadow edges warm up a little and it’s because it’s so it happens and just curiosity and passion so classes were excellent and they were really important and and Thank gosh for the internet you know is you know we can take see things online and and streamline does an excellent job posting this stuff online for people to watch.

Eric Rhoads 24:41
Thank you. So talk to me about so you you obviously took these lessons when did you decide to actually start marketing or selling your work?

Kathryn Stats 24:54
Okay, I was teaching Oh, and you learn more from teaching than the students ever will get from you. And so I was teaching, and it was getting better and things looked worse. And I think I got in a gallery. Yes, it was a local gallery. And what that was big time, you know. And then there’s a point where you want to go to that next level. And I observed on what gets you got me to that next level when I started painting with better painters of Maynard Dixon country was great, because you met the best painters in the country there and saw how they solve problems. I have a huge list of painters and, and their paintings and how they’ve solved a particular problem. I don’t want to look like a painting like them. But I do want that I want to use those solving methods doing a pine tree or something. So I noticed that what you do just step that level up with that Penny, let’s make a special area. This extra special mush, my friend that I had certain studio with, and I met in class, she still wanted to stop dinking around with all those windows and get to the center of interest. You know, why don’t you get to where the party is at and really highlights, low lights, contrast, warmth against cool, sharper edges. Just really make a party right there. Some people refer to that as hanging the jewelry. It’s better than senior whoring or gap actually, that’s gets a laugh, but that’s what it was mix special areas. And then I got picked up by greenhouse gallery in there, and I was terrified. That boy, you are in over your head. And if you don’t do this is yours to lose. So I really, actually the first year for a show, I’ve painted all my successes from the past years. And then the next year I was that’s where I really got to put my my head to the grindstone because I was, had to take a leap and have fresh stuff. And that’s where I was doing pretty figures in some things and doing more diverse subject matter. And then, so that’s a step that was a leap there. And we had many good years. Also, I usually paint red rock stuff. It’s warm. Hey, we’re so lucky. We don’t have to paint in my eyes. Dare I say Texas, Bobby. I studied Onderdonk paintings in Texas. And

Eric Rhoads 27:33
what are you saying about Texas?

Kathryn Stats 27:35
Is so it’s Well, it’s

Eric Rhoads 27:37
great. Yeah.

Kathryn Stats 27:39
Yeah. High Noon in Texas, you know, everything’s the same. But I looked at Onderdonk paintings and other Texas painters. And they did it because they made the ground as light as it deserves to be, instead of following the rules, how it’s the you know, the sky and then the ground and then this and that. It’s the opposite way in Texas, the skies darker than the ground in a very broad way to speak. Right, right. But then I started joining an invitation to paint the Glacier Park, and it took a few trips up there. And they had an opportunity to, you know, follow some plein air painters that were doing a show or something, I got to go, it’s just a tag along. And I became quite smitten with that. And I was lucky. The first year they were having fires and a lot of smoke, which really helped me not paint every frequent pine tree back to the ridge, because they’re just this was whatever your perspective should be. But anyway, I painted so much glacier, because I had to and have shows up there that I it really opened a whole new world for me painting green. For years, when I was first starting to paint I I’d go up the canyon to make friends and I’d say this is full of all that damn green and I’m not gonna paint and not go home because I didn’t know how to handle it. But glacier helped and how do you handle it? Red, good. Green is great. You know, don’t kid yourself. And also I went to Russia and pull it off. I can’t remember his first name Vassili, pull it off. All those guys were paying it looks like Utah maybe 100 years ago or something. So I learned cannot be so such a silly fool. In fact, if you’re painting Red Rock, you better get some it’s Ultramarine and yellow okra tended way out but it’s gonna go sort of a grey turquoise, that kind of thing. It’s absolutely a must put with your red hot colors. That makes it more real look at all of your paints, paintings. There’s a lot of green and then there rocks that you wouldn’t think about. So you just gather this stuff that you’re interested in, that you have a passion for, as you go along is pick it up, and it helps to be with better painters or see their work and how they deliver it. Because

Eric Rhoads 30:03
who would you consider the inspirations? The people that you I know you’ve picked up hundreds of books and so on, but who are the painters that that really have inspired you

Kathryn Stats 30:15
Edgar Payne

Eric Rhoads 30:17
Talk to me about Edgar Payne why?

Kathryn Stats 30:19
Oh his his his boldness of stroke and yet, okay, because it goes all those clouds can be made up of vertical square strokes and stepped up but you know, but managed his his colors and his brushstrokes and his glass she does everything, you know, those those sailboats and but I just, I just feel it’s clouds are wonderful in the way he has distance that he gives things. I’m just crazy about his work.

Eric Rhoads 31:02
Do you ever have you ever copied his work?

Kathryn Stats 31:06
I don’t think I’ve copied his robot should have used as clouds for reference.

Eric Rhoads 31:11
I stumbled into a gallery the other day and staring at me from across the room was a small Edgar Payne painting. And it’s one that I knew and one that I had loved, and one that I wished I could afford. And so I took a photo of it, and then I tried to paint it. And I learned a lot, a lot of little tiny subtleties that he would do, that I never would have anticipated, you know, just staring at it wasn’t enough. But when I went to paint it, there were little things that he created distance with that I had not seen before. Like

Kathryn Stats 31:46
you learn a lot. And that’s that’s a really important thing, because the subtleties are so important. But getting all precious is not. But being sensitive. Getting all sensitive, is you’ve got to have the whole gamut.

Eric Rhoads 31:59
Well, what do you mean by precious and sensitive?

Kathryn Stats 32:03
Precious is when everything’s so worked to death with it, remember to brush and every time and every edge is hard and every is no nuances. Just what do you call it when you’re just drawing? Rough? Say it’s rendering? Oh, yeah, rendering in on everything is the same. Yeah, and and sensitive is where you’ve got all the major stuff in his blocked internets. And the values are working right, and the patterns are strong. And yet, but it’s flat. And sometimes they’re just a little turn of something or a little mark here. That makes it work that completes it.

Eric Rhoads 32:45
Talk to me about patterns because this is something that I I’m just really starting to understand.

Kathryn Stats 32:54
Well, patterns odd, it took a class from Matt Smith in 2002, I think. And it’s the big shapes. So you get three to six big shapes and buy big shapes it is value. For me, it has value pap values. Areas, go over, go over someone’s painting and draw around the masses. These are masses not objects, it skies a mass, the ground flat of the grounds of mass. And, and don’t get too much minutiae in there, do it like the puzzle, put it together like a puzzle, and then their value masses. And and, actually, a really good thing to study is just values so you’re doing you know, a four by six sketching or with paint to tone no tan, just black and white. And so if an area is middle, you don’t know whether to push it lighter or darker, you have to do something to keep the number of value changes down. And then you do three tone three value masses value changes. And again, these are puzzle pieces. And you go to four and five and then you stand back and ask yourself which is the most profound the most interesting and very often the answer comes back less is more as far as how many values are in there you know my fingers and it was a wonderful teacher and I just love we just love to mess with him. It’s a you know, there’s 3 billion or 2000 and 100 value changes in black and white and there’s this many 100 and color and it’s really so why you got it you got it nailed down there. So you have shape and form.

Eric Rhoads 34:47
So do you do you feel like having value is pretty compressed in a painting is a good idea, you know, with the which keeps it more total or do you like to have a wide range of value Use … you’re saying within a shape a big shape, you want to kind of keep the values very close. So

Kathryn Stats 35:06
here’s this bucket finger. This is this joint is this section is the longest?

Eric Rhoads 35:15
Yeah, you’re good. Next and

Kathryn Stats 35:17
this is that relationship. individually. Division of threes is a good relationship to have light to dark, warm to light. And so that’s you want to organize those masses. Now, I’m not talking about minutiae that breaks into them. Okay, but you start with the mass. And then you keep that value. You can put as many colors as you want in that as long as it doesn’t step out of that value range. Otherwise, it pokes holes in your painting. Okay. This this is a whole study course you know if you want it.

Eric Rhoads 35:55
Yeah, well, its face. You have some videos out with streamline, which is wonderful. And a lot of people can study those or you you’re teaching on plein air live, I think you’re doing a critique on plein air live, and you’ve convention you’ll you’ll be asked back. And so a lot of opportunities to learn this. I don’t know, maybe I would imagine you’ve you’ve as curious as you are, but you’re always changing things up.

Kathryn Stats 36:22
Yes. And so once you’ve established feel comfortable in how you paint something, or you know, where you want her to get an idea, then it’s really important to be able to move things around. And and shake them up to make them more interesting. I wouldn’t go doing it just to get just climb a tree on a mountain on a lake, let’s put them all together, you know. But after you get so you know what you’re doing, you can change things up. And you should study making this larger, and that smaller and not and I love Jill Carver. Even though I’m so jealous of her, she’s wonderful. And she will take rather than painting the obvious scene, she’ll paint. And this is a quote from someone else. Remember, the essential is not the big, that’s not the Big Easy picture. It’s something over here and make it interesting. And I think that’s a real gift. Not a gift. It’s a it’s a very important thing to do. Let

Eric Rhoads 37:25
her head that gift as well. You know, everybody else is painting the whole landscape and he’s, he’s honing on one little piece of it that you would have never thought of as being something you want to paint.

Kathryn Stats 37:36
Is that austere? Yeah, yeah. And Lynch meal. Yeah. Got he’s got, you know, the whole, this one painting is a whole cliff. And then it goes back to the stuff that led to it. And it’s almost really and down here. In that little tiny corner. There’s there’s a little river and stuff. And it’s it’s the damnedest thing and it’s and it’s all it’s what is the unexpected works yeah. So and our took Ray Roberts Class A couple of years because I was painting everything flat.

Eric Rhoads 38:10
So Ray is one of your inspirations oh

Kathryn Stats 38:12
lord yes his his values are so wonderful and his shapes is mark making and I was fade in everything crumb monochromatic and didn’t know it and didn’t know why it was a period. So I just studied with him for I took workshops for him for a couple of years. And he just after that his he honors dark shapes and their shadows as though they are the objects themselves. I don’t know if that’s articulated correctly, but you can always pick out a Ray Roberts painting from his the way he has worked his patterns his dark patterns in when he starts these paintings that looks like a kindergarten kid did it because he’s got those dark patterns in there to start with. Not that that’s the only way to do things Jim Morgan James Morgan does the most tremendous bark making I’ve ever seen it blows me away and it says mark making that he comes on later with a lot of the time that’s what makes that work so I want to I want it

Eric Rhoads 39:27
all Oh my god. Yeah. No, there’s only a lifetime though. Right?

Kathryn Stats 39:32
His mark making it’s amazing. And and the shapes and as the as they as they mutate as they changes as they go along. I mean, I’m so I think he just i i left speechless which is big deal. At his paintings and how he does is mark making a sensitivity talk about sensitive but not precious. You know, the subtleties anyway? I guess what would

Eric Rhoads 40:03
you say Katherine are? The essentials to remember as a painter is you got somebody watching this or hearing this for the first time, and they’re trying to figure this journey out. What are the key essentials for them?

Kathryn Stats 40:19
As the beginning painter?

Eric Rhoads 40:21
Yeah. Or as any painter, I mean, what do you think are the things that that are important to always remember?

Kathryn Stats 40:29
So it shapes drawings, really more is terribly important. Katherine, who didn’t learn to draw much? My first teacher said urinated in the 100 draw to paint not only like the way that sounds, so it’s really my weakest point. That’s no excuse. But yeah. When you’re starting out what of what is it you’re interested in, copy it and use enough paint. Don’t be all precious with your paint. It’s, it’s like drunk Carlson said, If you can’t afford to paint, only do it once a week or something. But when you do paint like a millionaire, instead of just realizing this cost so much, and really just just this little tiny bit, you know, Lord, let yourself go. And, and and experiment and love your failures. When you get better eyes, you’ll say, Oh, that was so terrible just means you’re improving. Having someone to paint with is awfully nice to do. But I I think classes are very important basic classes, linear perspective. Making, you know making boxes in the sky wire down below and tying them to a vanishing point through all very important to play with and learn it. So instead of saying, Well, I can’t just do it. Yeah, I met Elva in Frank Erickson’s class, and we even shared a studio for about 15 years. It’s nice to have a friend but because it’s lonely stuff. So join a group. If you need the inspiration or the get together 10,000 hours, yes, like Malcolm Gladwell said, or 10,000 paintings, but you can’t just vomit paint 10,000 times and get any better. You have to show up and really be curious and love the process. Because

Eric Rhoads 42:31
let’s let’s talk about that for a second. I think that’s a really important point, you know, that there’s that concept of practice makes perfect. But that’s not true. It’s perfect. Practice makes perfect. Yeah. And so you could paint a lot of bad paintings and never grow. Or you can find a way to grow what, what is the way to grow?

Kathryn Stats 42:54
Well keep challenging yourself and having questions you need to answer by solving the problem of what’s before you, in order to get it onto the canvas that it means something I know that’s those are big words that always talks easier than a paints is isn’t easy. Failures to be celebrated. Because you wouldn’t learn anything. I know people that don’t ever change, because they don’t want to change that gift. You know, I think, Oh, come on. It’s paint. And we need to separate our egos, we need to leave our ego home because it gets in the way. If you have a bad day, you didn’t turn out anything. Oh, what was me? I just think, Well, you were out there, you know, out there enjoying it for you’re not? It’s not. It’s not who you are, how you paint. It isn’t even who you are. If you’re fabulous painter. It’s just what you do. There’s nothing mysterious about it. Although I really worship the gifts that people develop in their sensitivity for what they’re interested in. I’m always amazed at these and these wonderful young painters coming up. It just makes it thrills me

Eric Rhoads 44:04
pretty exciting. I mean, I think that we’re in an era where there are more good painters alive today than any time in history. And maybe it’s because we can see him because of Instagram. But the idea that the quality of artwork is absolutely as good or better than some of the greats from our past and they were great. And that’s not to diminish them, right? There are painters alive today that are equally as good as any of those great painters watching.

Kathryn Stats 44:37
My great cousin, John Stewart sent extort made ridiculous, sturdy, mentored a lot of students at San Jose State. And he’s a very, very intelligent, lovely man. And he’s of the floor of the period before the Impressionists and he said now, we call your kind of paint and he talks to me as the broad brush brush. Stroke painters. And he has a fairly not a low opinion. But they’re you know, there’s more to it than somebody just reading it out there and calling himself a painter, because there’s a lot of that going on.

Eric Rhoads 45:12
Did you get a chance to meet him?

Kathryn Stats 45:14
Oh, yes, I did. And when I used to go down to visit my mother in San Jose, and it always stuck in C. diff. And when I go to your planer conventions in Monterey, Monterey, I’d always go through Santa Santa Clara and meet and talk to Dick and go to lunch and, and talk painting. And he’s no, he’s fabulous at Oh, no. Also, he would he would teach those great black and brown methods from the older paintings. And they were gorgeous. If I use black it dies.

Eric Rhoads 45:49
Did you ever paint him? Did you ever paint with him?

Kathryn Stats 45:52
No, wait a minute. No, I paid her with his friend, Robert. Yeah. But no, I didn’t pay. It was dead. But I bought it. I bought a couple of paintings I tried to copy went, Oh, he was such a lesson. Lesson.

Eric Rhoads 46:07
You said the black kills your painting.

Kathryn Stats 46:10
I use it. I don’t know how to use it. Right. So it wasn’t brought up doing that. So yeah, I’ll kill him. But his he paints children that take take your breath away. Those of different Palak. Anyway, there’s one way that explore them all that interest you and give yourself a break. You’re not trying to paint a great American painting. Just explore, explore, I’ve got hundreds, maybe 1000s of plein air starts there that I don’t throw away sometimes. You know, take a brush to them or a sanding paper that, you know they’re sort of filling filling up my house.

Eric Rhoads 46:54
So one last question before we roll. And that is how do you see? What do you recommend to a painter in terms of what they should be looking for when they get out there?

Kathryn Stats 47:07
Oh, wonderful. They’re looking for pleasant patterns in the darks. You’re okay, yeah, the dark and light patterns, but mostly see, we get faked out by the light. And so we start putting light on Well, you got nowhere to go, you have to start with the darks. And they are the skeleton. And so when I had a mentor thing going, and it was working me and others to death when I did it, but a lot of learning went on there. So they started looking for shapes, and practicing these different practices where you do patterns. And then by the time we were through Boy, that’s how they do the painting, not the subject matter. It could be a bathtub in a pigpen. And it would, and it would be great because it was properly done with the shapes and the darks and the lights and also getting the different colors and shadows and different temperatures. It’s just those practices are important to see it as, as puzzle shapes. Like I said that painting behind you a little painting is done properly, or that’s done. In that way. I’ll stand up two rooms away and I don’t mean it shouts at you is it’s it’s fits so perfectly. I know so many wonderful Kate Starling Shanna coons there’s it blows me away. And I love learning from them. So yeah, it’s the shapes learn to see it in in terms of shapes instead of objects. And also, you know, spatial relationships, those that and even thirds. The arthritic finger. Yeah. And even thirds in everything dark light warm to cool. You know? Yeah, patterns, the way the sky goes from dark to light in either big go sideways, as well as up and down. Things that you have questions about, get them answered. And you can’t get the answer before you have the question. So that’s my curiosity and a passion is really quite helpful.

Eric Rhoads 49:30
What are you working on now? What are you trying to improve?

Kathryn Stats 49:33
Oh, so embarrassing. So I had this painting and I think you showed it somewhere back there was Big Red Rock do and yeah, that sucker. So what was interesting and it turned out to be a really nice painting but boy, when you look at the references for it, they weren’t I don’t know how I got that painting out of those references. So I got very popular was on the front of it. A book, it was a book cover for national parks, you know, when they did three or four covers, and it won a purchase award and all this blahdy blahdy blah. So then I painted it as a demo once and use it as the reference. Well, that’s just the kiss of death. And so I named the demo the kiss of death. Because when you’re copying what you’ve already painted, you can’t copy spontaneity. You can’t copy those things that come into your mind at the moment. And so I have a friend that’s been saving her money for years and years and years for a painting. And that’s what she chose. That damn thing. So what I did to get over that, and I’ve really put it off for years, it’s almost finished. And I’m not gonna show it to you either. But I did. I did get rid of the image. I went back to this references. And you know what it was I moved to the river in from downstream and did a variation of that, but I’m using the original reference and see where that gets me.

Eric Rhoads 51:03
When you say the original reference. Are you referring to a plein air sketch? Are you talking about a

Kathryn Stats 51:08
photograph? Yeah, okay, yeah, a slide.

Eric Rhoads 51:12
I’m not sure you’re getting outdoors to paint these days.

Kathryn Stats 51:14
Not enough. And a spring is coming. And I’m really eager to do that. And I don’t, I don’t tell myself I’m going to accomplish anything but waste my time. But it’s not a waste of time. But I mean, as far as turning anything out, I can show it’s better to forgive myself. I used to, like complain our opinion to childbirth, it was painful. And at least you didn’t have to raise it, you know? Not to be mean,

Eric Rhoads 51:44
not that there’s anything wrong with that. Yeah.

Kathryn Stats 51:47
But it’s better to go out with a sense of, if I don’t see anything that’s worth paying, I’ll look down at the ground and find something. And I and, and just put color notes down or make patterns. I took a whole trip to northern New Mexico, for the sole purpose of learning to do those pastel Red Rock colors in light and shadow and different types of day and time of day. Because that’s very hard for me to do. Shadow in light pastel colors. And I didn’t turn out anything that I was proud of, but I sure learned a lot. Yeah, well,

Eric Rhoads 52:27
that’s what matters, right? It’s

Kathryn Stats 52:28
all I did. Yeah,

Eric Rhoads 52:29
not about everything can’t be a masterpiece. No, Catherine, this has been absolutely delightful. Thank you. Thank you. It’s been, there’s so much knowledge in that brain. You need to just come back to the plein air convention and teach some teach again, we’ll have to have you out again. And I’d love to

Unknown Speaker 52:51
come I just, I just don’t think I’m up to demonstrate in front of everyone.

Eric Rhoads 52:56
Yeah, okay. Well, you can come and paint if you want to come this year. Hey, come to your quick drive over to Denver come and paint. And we’ll make you a field painter. You don’t have to demonstrate.

Unknown Speaker 53:07
But then I have done a walk up to people and they don’t want to talk to you and I can’t help them. And then I see people that really don’t know what they’re doing. And I’m thinking stick learn to spell paint before you try.

Eric Rhoads 53:20
You could just set up and pay we’ll give you a pass to work.

Kathryn Stats 53:25
Thank you. All right.

Eric Rhoads 53:27
Thank you, Kathryn. I want to remind everybody that Kathryn what do we have your website? We have all that data? I think so. Yes. Okay. So Kathrynstats.com …. And I want to remind everybody that Kathryn’s got some great videos out at streamline painttube.tv. One is called seaside reflections of Southern California. One is called overview of mountain scenery. One is called lazy summer day. And one is called painting the effects of light. They’re all fabulous. And you can learn a lot from those Kathryn thank you for being whatever my character has been a pleasure. Such a pleasure. She is a joy at a vast, vast amount of knowledge. It’s so incredible. So thank you again to Kathryn. Okay, are you guys ready for a little bit of marketing? Well, let’s get into that real quickly.

Announcer 54:25
This is the marketing minute with Eric Rhoads, author of the number one Amazon bestseller make more money selling your art proven techniques to turn your passion into profit.

Eric Rhoads 54:37
Admit it I answer your art marketing questions or at least attempt to and you can upload a video question to artmarketing.com/questions or you can email them to me [email protected] And give Amandine a break because she has to read them. Amandine, what’s the first question?

Amandine 54:56
The first question is from Thomas Michael Newman from Pennsylvania Yeah, how do successful artists balance the need to continuously create and improve their craft? And do all the necessary tasks required to sell their art?

Eric Rhoads 55:12
Well, Thomas, that’s a big loaded question. And listen, I, first off, there’s no pressure to sell anything. And I think a lot of people think, well, that’s the next step, that’s what I’m supposed to do, you don’t have to do that. Unless you have to do that. I mean, if you want to do it, you want to do it to make a living, there are a lot of ways to make a living, you don’t have to do that. But if you decide you want to do it, the moment you decide that you’re going to be selling your art, you are really deciding to make a commitment and your commitment level needs to change. Instead of dabbling. You can dabble and sell art, right? You can sell a put a, put a little show together and sell something a couple of times a year and a little bit here and there. That’s fine. That’s dabbling. But if you really want to become a full time successful artists supporting yourself, then there’s a whole whole thing about that I’ve got a series of videos just on that particular topic. And you, you have to accept the fact that if you’re selling paintings to make a living, then you are a full time artist. And when you’re a full time artist, you’re running a small business. And like a lot of small businesses, myself included, when I first started is you are the product, or the product maker and the the product, business owner, right. So it’s not unusual, think about somebody who does something else thought let’s just pick like a category like easels, right? So you know, you have an idea for an easel, you design it, and you sell it and you make your own easels, you’re out there, and you’re woodshop making it. And then eventually, you get enough demand that you can quit your other jobs. So you can just do your your products all day, and make easels all day every day. But you know, if you just made easels, but you didn’t focus on how to sell those easels and how to make people aware of them, then you’re not going to be able to succeed. So you have to find the balance. In a business. As an artist, you’re wearing a lot of different hats, right? My dad always used to say this to me, you know, some days, you got to wear your accounting hat, some days, you got to wear your shipping hat, some days, you got to wear your negotiation hat or your sales hat, you know, you’ve got a lot of different things and gallery hat. But you’re you’re never going to change, you’re still an artist, you just have to develop muscles in other areas. And so you know, as an artist is, of course, if you’ve done this, you know, you’re in the shipping business, you’re in the framing business, you’re in the marketing and sales business, because you’ve got to sell people on coming in, and you got to pay the bills. And there’s a whole lot of stuff you have to learn. But I like to create what I call time budgets. And it’s a concept I use, I highly recommend it. And essentially you make start by making a list of everything that you have to do in a typical month. And you say to yourself, Okay, I have to do shipping. And I have to do shipping once a week. And that’s going to take me two hours, you budget two hours, and then you put up a two hour block in your calendar. And you say this is my shipping time. And you might have teaching you, you have to set aside time for teaching. This is my teaching time. This is my marketing time. And this is my accounting time, you know, you have to figure out what those things are? And what is it going to take. Now. You know, you’ve got a problem, though. And that is that you have to sell a certain number of paintings. Let’s say that in order to meet your financial needs, that you have to put 30 paintings out the door every single month. Well, that means you got to do a painting a day. How realistic is that? I mean, some people can do it, some people can’t do it. But do you really want to have to do a painting every day or two paintings some days and take the weekends off. And and if let’s say you need 10 hours to do a painting, and you got to do 30 of them a month, you don’t have time, you got maybe two hours left to do something else. And that’s already beyond an eight hour day. So what you’ve got to do is you got to figure out how to become more efficient and becoming more efficient is how can I paint this painting faster? Well, maybe you can’t, some people can some people can’t. But if you can knock two hours off the process somehow, then that’s a that’s two hours you’re gonna get back for relaxed time or for other types of work. But one of the things that a way to overcome that is to figure out how do I get my prices up? Because if I need a certain amount of income, and I need to sell 30 paintings, what if I could only do 20 paintings recapture all that extra time and How much money do I need? If I’m going to hit my numbers to do 20 paintings. And of course, you have to anticipate that if you do 20 paintings, not all 20 paintings are going to sell how many are going to sell every single month? And how are you going to make that happen, that means you’re blocking out time to devote to your sales and marketing, your advertising, discussions, all of the things like that. So anyway, it’s all about figuring out how much time everything takes, and allocating that time. And if you don’t have enough time, then you got to figure out either I gotta get some help. And of course, if you get help, you’ve either got to get volunteer help, or you got to have to pay for him. That means now your expenses are higher, you got to sell more artwork, or you got to get your prices up. And I think getting your prices up most artists underprice their work. And that’s a good place. The key to successful balance is to leverage, there’s a word leverage your business. For instance, if you get a gallery or two galleries or three galleries selling for you, now you don’t have to do the selling. Now you still have to do branding and marketing, because you want to keep that under your control. You want them to do it for you, too. But that’s going to help you look for ways to get people to do things for you, leverages, you know how getting somebody to help you out, help you with your shipping, or maybe you say to yourself, look, if I spend 10 hours painting, that’s productive time, if I’m spending five hours on shipping, I’d be better off to pay somebody, you know, $10 an hour or whatever to do that it’s probably not possible anymore. Anyway. Big and business is not for the faint of heart. But guess what, it’s a wonderful thing because it buys you freedom. You don’t have to work for anyone. You got to work for yourself, though. But it’s still better because you don’t have anybody screaming at ya, you know, at work, but you got to scream at yourself, you got to say, look, I gotta get this done. I have to have this discipline, because if I don’t do it, I’m not going to be able to keep going anyway. All right, what’s our next question? Um, indeed.

Amandine 1:02:05
The next question is from Beth Cole sent from Maine, and well known for one style and genre, but want to know how to market to a new preferred style. Do I start a new website? Lower prices? Because this is a new style and genre? What should I do?

Eric Rhoads 1:02:41
… So Beth, I would start by asking yourself, why do you want to launch a new style or a new genre, right. And there are really two reasons that I can think of one is you’re not making enough money with what you’re doing now. And you think maybe changing things will make it better? Or maybe you’re just bored. All right. And either one is okay, there’s no right or wrong. But let’s address these before I get to your question. If you’re not making enough money at what you’re doing now, what makes you think something new and different, is going to sell better, once you’re established, because you still have to weave you do something new and different, you’re gonna have to build name recognition for that, you’re gonna have to build awareness, you’re probably going to have to start at lower pricing, you’re going to have to build up interest in that. And the amount of time that takes could take, oh, 234 years, right. Whereas you’re already known in one particular area, maybe if you just get a little more excited about that, and pour gas on that make that work, you’re gonna make more money with it. So that’s one thing to consider if you’re bored. That’s a whole nother another thing. And if you’re bored, you just want to try something different, or you don’t want to do what you’re doing now. There’s nothing wrong. But if you are going to change your style, then you’re Are you going to drop the other? Or are you going to keep that going? And I look at that if you’re making money with one thing and you decide to drop it for another, you’ve lost an opportunity. How about you build that business, you figure out a way to keep it going keep it generating income, and then launch something new and build that business, but don’t give up one for the other. And the reality is you can have a different pseudonym for yourself and have have it be two different artists. I know a lot of artists who do this and so they have one under their real name. They have a couple of different styles under different other names. And they have different galleries selling their work because you know people like me get bored i Some days I want to do abstract some days I want to do tight realism. Some days I want to do Impressionism and I could in theory, if I if I wanted to be aggressive enough, I could have different types. Have artworks go to different galleries, and that’s okay. But where you get into trouble is if you’re known, let’s say you’re known for landscape painting, and you decide all of a sudden I’m going to start doing abstract painting of portraits, your, your audiences likely to want to buy it. Now they might, if you’re really established, then you can start adding some new things and see how it goes. But if if people go to your website for one thing, and they see another thing, they get confused, they don’t buy anything, that’s a problem. You want to have that not happen. So anyway, if you decide you want to do this, if it’s about being bored, and just trying something different, yeah, you’re gonna have to, you’re gonna have to figure out what your business strategy is going to be, how are you going to sell it? Yeah, it might be a new name, it might be the same name. It might be a new website, it’s probably different ads, it’s a whole lot of different things. And you just got to build it and grow it. But I would, I would hang on to what’s working. If it’s not working, fix it first. If that doesn’t work, try fixing it again. If that doesn’t work, try fixing it again. That doesn’t work, then maybe try something new. But something new is sometimes got to be more problematic than just fixing something. So avoid confusion with your value your galleries and your followers. And make sure that you’re not confusing the world. And that I think solves your problem. Anyway, that’s the marketing minute.

Announcer 1:06:35
This has been the marketing minute with Eric Rhoads. You can learn more at artmarketing.com.

Eric Rhoads 1:06:43
Kathryn Stats for being on here today. Thank you. And I hope that she will come and join us and hang out and paint at the plein air convention. We would love to have her. Even though she wouldn’t be on stage teaching. She just loves being there. We love having her around. So if you want to come to the plein air convention and hang out with people like her, everybody’s very welcoming. You don’t have to be at a certain level to come. You can be a beginner, you don’t even have to paint to come you don’t have to paint on location. If you don’t want that pressure. You know, we’re just there having fun and everybody is accepting. So just come to plein air convention. It’s coming up in May and it’s going to be in Denver, it’s going to be incredible. PleinAirconvention.com is where you find out about it. And by the way, if you’re not following us, by having a subscription to plein air magazine, I think you’ll find it to be a really wonderful place to be a place to spend your time because you’re going to learn more about the plein air lifestyle is stories about art artists, techniques, collecting all kinds of things. So that’s at plein air magazine.com. Also, you know, I’m on the air daily on Facebook. It’s also on YouTube. It’s a show called Art School, live 12 noon Eastern time daily. Just go to YouTube, look up art school alive and hit subscribe. That’s the easiest way to find it. Got a little over 100,000 subscribers there now. Thank you for that and just follow and we’d be loved love to teach you about art and a lot of different ways. And also, if you don’t mind giving me a follow at Eric Rhoads. Spell it rho A DS on Instagram and Facebook. Okay. And if you’ve not seen Sunday coffee, that’s my blog. It’s out every Sunday morning and I kind of write it for my kids to kind of impart some lessons but everybody has been passing it along so I started letting everybody see it. Anyway, it says Sunday coffee and you can just go to Coffeewitheric.com and subscribe. It’s free. Also. That’s all I got for today. Thank you again to Kathryn Stats. I’m Eric Rhoads publisher, and founder of plein air magazine. And I’m getting excited because as you’re listening to this, we’re getting started with plein air live. You can still join us late just go to pleinairlive.com And you can watch replays if you missed any of it. It’s gonna be great Kathryn Stats is going to be on there doing critiques by the way. So thank you for watching today. And remember every day painting is a good day so it’s a big world. Go paint it. Bye bye.

Announcer:
This has been the plein air podcast with PleinAir Magazine’s Eric Rhoads. You can help spread the word about plein air painting by sharing this podcast with your friends. And you can leave a review or subscribe on iTunes. So it comes to you every week. And you can even reach Eric by email [email protected]. Be sure to pick up our free ebook 240 plein air painting tips by some of America’s top painters. It’s free at pleinairtips.com. Tune in next week for more great interviews. Thanks for listening.